April 28, 2017

Can you teach ‘real’ engineering at a distance?

This blog is prompted by an e-mail from Rich Zuc, who wanted to know why there were no undergraduate degrees in engineering offered at a distance. With his permission, his letter is reproduced below, with my answers.

Rich wrote:

I am a resident of Hamilton Ontario and I am interested in online and distance learning (DL)  as I am seeking to pursue an undergraduate program in engineering/science.

I left university in my early 20s, in the mid 1990s, due to family commitments and never had the opportunity to complete an undergraduate engineering degree. Back then I started looking for an engineering/science degree offered via distance learning by a Canadian university; I did carry out extensive internet searches but to no avail. I have kept on searching ever since. Now, with 2010 just around the corner the online/DL situation in Canada, with respect to providing science and engineering degrees, has not changed at all!! There are very very few traditional brick and mortar Canadian universities that offer online/DL 4 year honours undergraduate degrees in the Arts and Social Sciences and practically no traditional brick and mortar institution offers an online/DL honours degree in engineering/science!!!

Do you expect that opportunities in engineering and science, via online/DL programs offered by traditional brick and mortar Canadian schools, are likely to remain as they are…that is non-existent!! Or based on your experience do you foresee some change in the not too distant future? Do you feel that this has to do mainly with: resistance by universities’ committees, boards, governing bodies or faculty members?

I replied:

You raise an important issue here. As far as I know (and I’m not an engineer) you are correct – there are no undergraduate engineering degrees that are offered entirely online or at a distance in Canada, and very few at undergraduate level in the USA. Some organisations, such as Stanford University, offer graduate engineering programs online. You can do several certificate programs in ‘hard’ engineering from the British Columbia Institute of Technology by distance. I’m not sure whether you can transfer these courses into a regular undergraduate degree, thus shortening the time on campus, but generally you can in British Columbia. (Whether Ontario institutions will accept them is much more problematic). Have a look at the BCIT Civil Engineering site which has good questions and answers on the distance programs they offer. There are computer science programs available online from a limited number of Canadian institutions, but I know of no whole undergraduate programs in the ‘hard’ engineering areas, civil, mechanical or electrical.

This is not because it would be impossible to design a high quality engineering distance education program, using a combination of online teaching, simulations and limited laboratory time at an accredited local institution. There are successful design models for this in other professions, such as medicine.

There are several reasons for why there are no undergraduate engineering programs offered by distance delivery. The main obstacle is the professional accreditation agencies, who require students to have a very high level of laboratory classroom time in a program before accepting a degree for professional accreditation. There is a belief that engineering is very much a hands-on profession and needs personal supervision within a laboratory context.

A second obstacle is the very high cost of designing laboratory simulations in engineering that might replace physical labs for online students. Some progress is being made in this area, but the whole area lacks sustainable business models – it’s a chicken and egg situation: lack of recognition for online learning limits large scale applications.

Interestingly, there is growing evidence that engineering can be taught successfully online in apprenticeship programs – or at least mainly online. Vancouver Community College runs a very successful program for apprentices in car body work repairs (E-pprentice), reducing a 13 week semester course to three weeks on campus at the end of the course, with the rest being done online. BCCampus is now managing a program funded by BC’s Industrial Training Agency for flexible delivery of trades training across the province that combines online learning with local supervision of hands-on skills development.

However, I cannot see the universities moving in this direction unless there is a real crisis in getting engineering students. There are no incentives for them to offer alternative delivery. The focus of most engineering professors is on research and they would prefer to have fewer rather than more students, as teaching interferes with research. There are in North America still plenty of well qualified applicants for undergraduate campus-based engineering programs.

Having said this, engineering does compare badly to another professional area, medicine. The medics have been much more innovative in using distance education. For instance in BC, a partnership between the main hospitals, UBC, UNBC, and University of Victoria has resulted in a distributed education model for the M.D. program in the province, so people don’t have to move to Vancouver where the only medical school is located. What drove this was the need to retain doctors in the regions, rather than have them all move to Vancouver. Note again though that this is a graduate, distributed learning program, and is not fully online.

Now over to you, readers. Can you answer the following questions:

1. Name one North American university that offers an entire undergraduate civil, mechanical or electrical engineering by distance that is accepted for accreditation by a professional engineering organization.

2. Do you agree that it would be possible to design and deliver a high quality undergraduate engineering degree for entirely distance delivery (allowing for perhaps local hands-on supervision by employers or summer school at a regular university)?

2. If so, why are there no or so few undergraduate programs at a distance in engineering?

It would be really good to hear from some engineering faculty on this topic.

In the meantime, take a look at: Best Online Graduate Engineering Programs 2016 from U.S. News (only institutions in the USA, though).

Comments

  1. I am surprised to not see Cape Breton University (CBU) here. They offer an online BTech Manufacturing degree. The only thing is that the exams will be invigilated by an authorised person at a local college/university.

    http://www.cbu.ca/academics/online/online-programs

    I went to Georgian College, Barrie for Mechanical Engineering Technology and it turns out Georgian and CBU have an articulation, so I will be able to get the degree by completing only 10 courses. I do realize that this is a BTech. and not a BEngg program, but hey its something better than nothing right. With the lack of a feaseable option, in terms of both tuition and accessibility (UND’s tuition is some US$912 PER CREDIT for anywhere outside Manitoba & Sask. in Canada) this sounds like a good option at an aprox. CAD700 PER COURSE.

    One other thing, I did join UofMcMaster, for their BTech. Manuf., but their lack of “customer service” and the fact that diploma holders need 24 courses (many of which are the same ones I did in college) to attain a degree is a turn-off for me.

    Maybe someone here could talk about their experience at CBU.

    • Many thanks for this, Gagan. Let’s hear from the folks at Cape Breton – sounds a good option to me.

      • Gagan and myself have completed the Btech program (Manufacturing) from Cape Breton. My goal is to apply for P.ENG status but I think that I will do so in the next 4-5 years as I hope that may reduce the number of exams that I may have to take. I am in the time being looking at master’s (M.ENG course based) option but so far all the universities that I have inquired with require a 4 year undergrad degree.

  2. Greetings

    I to am another engineering enthusiast, and similarly, I don’t have the luxury of being able to attend school full-time nor have the time and finances to travel vast distances to attend school part-time. .

    I am confident that engineering can be taught through online means. Within the engineering field, it is work experience that matters most, and if the student can work in the field while being taught, that alone should substitute for any missing engineering lab components that are required to complete the engineering program. Traditional students that graduate don’t even have the experience that non-traditional students have.

    Online engineering programs can simply require the student to work under the supervision of a P.Eng and can easily co-ordinate their lab component with the students ongoing work experience in a linear order. In fact, I heard of someone completing an online civil engineering degree through the UK system by doing the exact same thing.

    Now, as a Canadian and a architectural appreciate, I would now like to use the RAIC Syllabus as an example. Please look it up if you wish. Completing the RAIC Syllabus is an alternative method of becoming an architect through distance learning rather then attending traditional school. The student is required to work, and login, a fixed number of hours, under the supervision of a registered architect to complete the program, while completing their online courses. Although the program is a lot longer then traditional school, the methodology of completing the program can be transferred to engineering programs.

    I honestly believe that Canadians are being given raw deal in terms of the integration of technology to access education. Yes, there are some programs online, but not enough, if any, of the more professional programs. I believe a lot of it has to do with the business behind and interlinking these institutions, politicians and accreditation councils.

    There needs to be more public pressure on the politicians to address this issue with academic institutions and accreditation councils. If need be, have them threaten to remove their government funding and subsidies if they fail to comply.

    I mean, you can get a fully accredited online law degrees from the UK that will allow the student to sit the bar and practice any where in the commonwealth. Where is this in Canada? Are we not a developed nation, just as advanced? We have the methodology and technology, so why are we being treated like this?

    I am sure that anyone with a deep pocket and a half fast lawyer can sue the respective organizations that are stagnating and preventing the accessibility of these programs in Canada with discriminating the under-privileged, working class, remote living from obtaining a higher education.

    • Thanks for the comment, Dennis. I agree that the professional accreditation bodies, especially in engineering and law in Canada, have been very reactionary about approving online and distance courses in principle. (Medicine/health and accountants on the other hand have been much more receptive). However, professional accreditation bodies are independent bodies, not funded by government, but by dues from members and employers. The pressure to accept online learning therefore must come from within these professions if things are to change. So don’t blame educational institutions or government (although they too could do more to lean on professional bodies about this.)

    • Carey Barnett says:

      I fully agree with you arguments, Dennis, it is unimaginable that in this “developed” country working class people don’t have full access to higher learning and qualifications, because the accrediting bodies and professional associations will not accept distance learning/training for engineers….I guess it’s a case of being so far ahead and still so so far behind.

      • Derrick Williams says:

        Greetings everybody. I am a South African who also searched for a university offering online undergraduate engineering degrees (four year Honours BEng Washington Accord degrees) if that matter is still of interest to this group. My search as led me to identify only three universities in the world: University of North Dakota, and Charles Darwin and Southern Queensland. The last two are Australian institutions. While they all offer distance online learning from start to end, they all have one thing in common: they insist on the relevant practicals being done on campus, requiring approximately two weeks per year. Maybe that’s a smallish price to pay for a good degree. Regards.

  3. Timo Holburn says:

    Several US-based universities offer ABET-accredited online degrees in engineering. The ABET website has a list, but it’s not complete. (Why? Some programs have a small on-campus portion, making them not “fully online.” Some fully-online programs are so new that no cohort has graduated yet.)

    You asked for one example, so here you go: Arizona State University (ASU) offers an online “Bachelor of Science in Engineering, Electrical Engineering” program. I’d include a link but I suspect that would cause a red flag, so just search for it.

    Bonus: Check out all the online engineering bachelors degrees offered by the University of North Dakota (UND).

    Many of the programs require the students to come to their campus to do labs, as it’s tricky getting around those, but not all courses have labs. Those labs can be done in the summer, and can be anywhere from an intense five days up to a whole semester, depending on the university.

    It’s also worth noting that Canadians can take those US-based online engineering bachelors degree programs.

    • Thanks, Timo. That’s very helpful and much appreciated

    • Chris Baehr says:

      “It’s also worth noting that Canadians can take those US-based online engineering bachelors degree programs.”

      Except that they won’t be recognized in Canada, so you would be wasting your money. See the quote below:

      “Furthermore, PEO does not recognize online or distance education.”

      Sincerely,
      Esther Kim
      Senior Admissions Representative
      Professional Engineers Ontario
      101-40 Sheppard Ave. W.
      North York, ON M2N 6K9
      Tel: 416-840-1039
      Fax: 416-224-8168
      ekim@peo.on.ca

      • Pius Abeshi says:

        I know this is coming in months after but,

        “If you do not have an undergraduate degree in engineering from a program accredited by the CEAB, your academic background will be assessed by PEO to determine whether it is equivalent to the established standards. PEO will assign technical exams to give you an opportunity to confirm (Confirmatory Examination Program) that your academic preparation is equivalent or to remedy any identified deficiencies (Specific Examination Program).”

        Could the PEO assign technical exams for applicants to confirm that they have a valid academic background?

        • Chris Baehr says:

          Hi. Sorry for the late reply.

          That’s exactly what they do, but they will assign you 18 exams, not just one or two.

          I have a 3-year diploma in Computer Programming + a 4-year degree (post diploma) in Information Systems (which is just another name for Computer Science). Both were taken at accredited Canadian colleges and universities. I am a Canadian born citizen with English as my native language. I have lived in Canada all of my life.

          I was assigned 18 exams.

          Bottom line: Nothing is good enough, and they will always evaluate you to require the maximum number of exams to get licensed.

          Also: They don’t count work experience prior to completing the exams. If you work for 20 years as a software developer, they count that as 0 years of experience. The experience “clock” doesn’t start running until you pass the final exam they assign you.

  4. Robert Schmid says:

    Thanks for this article Tony. I have been looking around for an online electrical engineering program for a year or so now. I am a licensed electrician and wound up working for a company where I am in an office doing tech support and helping out with designing systems and not in a financial setup where I could take the time off to do a full time course.
    I do believe that there could and would be the demand for online courses and I do not see why the “hands on” portion could not be done via the wonderful technology of the internet. I do understand that the cost of the initial programming of the course would be time consuming and expensive. However I don’t see why a program could not be developed to be the base program for the manipulation to any different engineering course.

  5. Just a further piece of information on this issue. The New York University Tandon School of Engineering grants online graduate and immersion certificates and master’s degrees in more than a dozen fields. The school’s online unit was recognized this year (2015) by the Online Learning Consortium for outstanding success in furthering online learning programs in engineering. OK, it’s not an undergraduate program, but…

  6. February 3, 2016: The University of North Dakota will now be offering a Master of Science in Electrical Engineering fully online (see http://dakotastudent.com/7477/news/und-launches-online-masters-in-electrical-engineering/)

    “UND’s Department of Electrical Engineering receives numerous requests from recent graduates who are already in their careers, but still wanted to further their education,” said Sima Noghanian, associate professor and chair, said in a statement. “This online program allows them to pursue a master’s degree while continuing their careers.”

  7. Byron Studer says:

    Hello all, great conversation… in search of a Civil Tech/Civil Diploma course online as well. Too bad about BCIT ending theirs in 2010! I had no idea. Just posting in hopes of being updated for any future posts.

    Thanks to all

  8. Chris Baehr says:

    I am the perfect person to offer an opinion on this.

    The reason there are no online/distance programs in engineering is because the regulatory agencies that oversee the P.Eng credential in Canada will not accept them. Period. Here is a quote from a letter I received from Esther Kim of the PEO (Professional Engineers Ontario) when I tried to pursue my P.Eng:

    “Furthermore, PEO does not recognize online or distance education.”

    Esther Kim
    Senior Admissions Representative
    Professional Engineers Ontario
    101-40 Sheppard Ave. W.
    North York, ON M2N 6K9
    Tel: 416-840-1039
    Fax: 416-224-8168
    ekim@peo.on.ca

    That’s pretty definitive isn’t it? The problem begins and ends with the regulatory bodies that oversee the profession. They are stubborn, out of touch with the times, and they will never change.

    If anything, engineering is perfectly suited for online/distance study because it’s math and design work. The work is done almost entirely on computers. It could easily be done from home.

    I have tried everything to make change happen, even going to politicians for support. Nothing has worked. These organizations are above the law, and they answer to no one.

    Please feel free to contact me for more information.

    • Jeff Potter says:

      Further to Chris’ comments above, I live in Alberta and am wanting to do distance learning, and I have received this from APEGA regarding distance learning:

      “The current Board of Examiners practice is that they do not recognize distance learning programs. ”

      “Canadian engineering programs accredited by the Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board (CEAB) are recognized by the Board of Examiners. The link below provides a list of CEAB accredited programs:
      http://www.engineerscanada.ca/sites/default/files/2014_accreditation_criteria_and_procedures_v06.pdf

      “ABET accredited degrees are evaluated on a course-by-course basis against APEGA syllabi and course equivalents.
      http://applyatapega.ca/exam-course-syllabi.html

      I think the universities from the US offering these programs should appeal to the governing agencies in Canada if they want to attract more students from here.

      • Jeff,

        It appears that Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of Manitoba (APEGM) is accepting the University of North Dakota’s distance education-based engineering program because it is ABET-accredited. I found this information on Professional Engineers of Ontario website (see link http://www.peo.on.ca/index.php/ci_id/28734/la_id/1.htm
        Which states:
        “Minutes of the January 17, 2014 Regular Meeting
        Under Item 7.4 Distance Education – Introduced by Seimer Tsang, Bob Dony stated that the Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of Manitoba (APEGM) is accepting the University of North Dakota’s distance education-based engineering program because it is ABET-accredited. This will probably create a discussion at the Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board (CEAB) of whether or not the CEAB will start accepting more distance education components, or at what point it will accept distance education as an entire degree. The Chair remarked that PEO should advise the CEAB that this is not acceptable to PEO. The Chair and Bob Dony agreed to discuss this matter further off-line.”

        I would recommend a potential Canadian applicant to University of North Dakota’s undergraduate degree to confirm that with Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of Manitoba (APEGM). If it s true then at least one of the provinces is onboard, and I hope the remaining will follow.

    • Chris see below my reply to Jeff’s post.

    • Spiros Hippolyte says:

      Hello everyone,

      Canadian engineer boards are having to consider the implications of distance education, yet until a decision became official (across CEAB & each association) boards will discourage any external applicant from using distance education(I learnt this from APEGA) to fulfill academic requirements (for example to exempt from any technical exam). Yet accredited engineering programs across Canada allow distance courses in liberal studies and now at University of Toronto & Mcmaster University, actual engineering courses (intro. materials sci. -chemistry, electronic circuits & devices). While the online course from U of T is part of their 1st year -engineering curriculum, the Mcmaster course is from year 2, electrical engineering. Labs are taken using home kits.

  9. Thanks for sharing your conversation, I’ve learned a lot from reading. I am thinking about becoming a municipal engineer. I agree with you that it would be hard to design a high quality engineering program from a distance. When I go to school, I want to be close to my teachers.

  10. Mike A. says:

    This is awesome. I’m glad I’m not the only person looking to do this online and noticing the lack of online courses available to even work towards the degree. I was planning to make this a 10 year plan which is apparently not possible. I’ve emailed a few Universities in my area and was informed that I would have to attend full time. Like the rest of you I have other obligations, kids to feed clothe and house, that make it impractical if not impossible unless I win the lottery in the near future. Does anyone know of any backdoor routes? I have three trades and was hoping all of my College credits and years of experience would be worth something. I read a study out of BC that was talking about trades to academic transfer but have not been able to find any programs that actually do it beyond looking at your college transcript. I had also been told at one point that some Universities will accept a red seal in place of 2 years worth of credits. Has anyone else heard of anything like this?

  11. Hi everyone. I am wondering if anyone found a solution to this? Did anyone find an online program for engineering in Canada. I took Architectural Technology after high school and am now working in a structural engineering firm. I love the atmosphere and would like to pursue engineering. I do not want to quit my job to go back to school full time. Any suggestions to this?

    • Hi, Jess (and Mike)
      There are now a few engineering programs that can be taken fully online in Canada. The most notable is Queen’s University (Ontario) that is now offering a B.Tech in Mining Engineering fully online. McMaster University (also in Ontario) is offering a B.Tech in Software Engineering in partnership with Mohawk College (two years at Mohawk, two years at McMaster). I’m not sure if the Mohawk part is fully online but the McMaster part definitely is. These are both prestigious Canadian universities.
      Any other examples?

  12. Hi Tony,

    I have been looking everywhere for an online Computer Science program in Canada but I can’t find any. There are a number of American options but as a Canadian, these would be far too expensive. Western Governors University offers a BSc in Software Development and for the cost, it is rather tempting but I fear the lack of a GPA from competency education might limit options for pursuing a Masters later on. Many schools are offering a MS in Computer Science. Unlike engineering, Computer Science doesn’t require the same kind of lab work but instead consists more of projects.

    All I have found is Athabasca and Thompson Rivers but both are not a true Computer Science degree. Athabasca offers a BSc in Computing and Information Systems and judging by the course options, it is quite similar to a CS degree.

    Alternatively Thompson Rivers has a Bachelor of Computing Science degree. Unfortunately the course selection is too limited to complete the degree entirely at Thompson Rivers and one is forced to take a good portion of the degree through letter of permission making it quite difficult logistically to complete.

    To me it is very surprising that a school like Athabasca despite nearly all the required courses for a Computer Science degree do not offer a BSc in Computer Science.

    What is keeping Canadian universities so far behind the US in this area?

    – Thanks

  13. Grant Johnston says:

    Hello,
    I’ve been reading this article for awhile now because this is something that I’ve struggled with. In speaking with APEGBC, what I found that “works” for me is finding a program that is accredited by the local engineering society and that has signed the Washington Accord. This accord gives “Mutual recognition of accredited engineering programmes”. The course I decided to take was out of USQ in Australia. I am currently taking their Electrical Engineering program and have written exams all over the world, as my job demands me to travel. This does require me to take a few trips down to Australia for lab work but they work hard to condense these resident schools into a week or two. The one downfall is the current regulations on international tuition and not being able to write any of that off on my taxes. This makes the international cost of schooling to be far harder to swallow.

    I would love to take my program here in Canada but the “old guard” of engineering societies here won’t look to the future.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Accord
    http://www.usq.edu.au/study/modes/online-study

    • Thanks, Grant – very helpful information and good luck with your studies

    • Jeff Potter says:

      That Washington Accord sounds promising, but I cannot find any information online confirming PEO or APEGBC accepts Accord programs on either website.

      This if from APEGA (Alberta)
      https://www.apega.ca/apply/mit/

      a graduate of a university program that meets one of the following requirements:
      – is recognized by the Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board or the Washington Accord (for engineering applicants)

      • Grant Johnston says:

        Jeff,
        I took the initiative and emailed APEGBC because I found the same as you. This is what I they replied on Feb 2016
        “If the university and program is accredited under the Washington accord it will be considered accredited by APEGBC.”

        I hope that helps.

        • Grant, Jeff,
          Let me know if you find more information regarding the Washington accord, I’m in my final year of my EE at UND. Looking to apply with PEO within the next 6 months.

          • Jeff Potter says:

            Hey Carl, is this the North Dakota program you are taking through correspondence? How has your work life balance been? How much has it cost you? How long has it taken you to complete the program and how many hours do you put in each week?

            I’ve emailed PEO. As per the ABET website things look promising as well. So as per all the above, the UND program is the closest option for Electrical Engineering correspondence program, and is accepted through APEGA and APEGBC. The accreditation for the UND program appear to include their online program. Of course, for anyone reading this, please do your own research before you embark on spending thousands for these programs.

            http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=66
            http://www.abet.org/global-presence/mutual-recognition-agreements/engineering-washington-accord/
            http://www.abet.org/global-presence/mutual-recognition-agreements/engineering-bilateral-engineers-canada/

          • Hi Carl,
            Please keep us updated with the response from PEO. I’m also attending UND, in their DEDP and living in Ontario. I would like to eventually get the P. Eng designation but from what I’ve seen and read so far it seems unlikely. My goal is to at least get my BSc. in Mech Eng. and UND seems to be the only choice with my full time job obligations.

          • Jeff Potter says:

            Carl,

            I think you are going to have trouble with the PEO – see below as per my recent correspondence with admissions as of this morning. You are probably best to switch provinces and get registered in BC, AB, or MB where the UND program is recognized as PEO is behind the times. They will let you get registered in another province though and switch. Maybe you can register as an EIT in one of the other provinces then move. It looks like P. Eng won’t be a problem.

            Question: Is there any point taking the North Dakota course if I want to work as a registered engineer in Ontario?
            Answer: Please be advised that PEO does not recognize online or distance education.

            Question: If I was able to be registered with APEGA or APEGABC, then decided to move my practice to Ontario later with PEO, would I run into issues?
            Answer: If you become a full P.Eng. in good standing then you can apply to PEO for a transfer. But you must be a P.Eng. in good standing for it to be considered a transfer.

            Can you give us more info on the program for UND like work life balance, how many hours you are putting in a week plus completion?

  14. Carey Barnett says:

    It is most disheartening that in this era of technology and the great advances being made daily, that persons are still being forced into sitting in a class rooms in an effort to be awarded higher level qualifications.

    Being from a third world country, I’ve always thought it would have been the norm in this, and other first world countries, for one to obtain higher educational qualification without having to leave one’s job, which most of us cannot afford to do.

    Without the benefit of emperical data, I am of the belief that there exist a hugh untapped market for part time full degree programs. These types of programs would open the door to higher qualifications for a large number of persons that does not have the financial latitude to do full time programs.

    This, to me, should be a no brainer for university operators and administrators. In places like Jamaica and other Caribbean countries, one can earn a full degree through part time studies in engineering, business, architecture, to name a few. The same degree courses that are offered full time can be offered on a part time basis but would require part time students doing an extra year or two to complete the requisite courses for award of the qualification.

    As well I do belielve that the colleges would find that their income, from partime degree programs, would far out strip that of full time programs because more people, who need to work while studying, would be enrolled.

    Its about time the Canadian universities and colleges invest in this area and open the doors education to more people than presently obtains.

  15. Jacob Mellett says:

    Good evening, there is a lot of great information here, I’m looking for an online program or distance program in both petroleum engineering and mechanical engineering. Does it matter where it comes from as long as it is accredited

  16. Cory Searle says:

    Thanks for the information, it mat certainly prove useful. I’m currently in the final year of an in-class Civil Engineering Technology program at an accredited institution. Does anyone know if the hands-on aspects of such a program offset the lab requirements of an online degree program?

  17. Chris Baehr says:

    Another year passes and the status of engineering programs in Canada remains the same. Here are some key points I forgot to mention previously:

    – PEO offers courses online in engineering which I believe can be used for credit towards a P.Eng

    The irony? They don’t accept online or distance education from anyone else. Basically, the regulatory body has now become its own university, and will seek to put competitors like AU out of business. The government has nothing to say about this issue.

    – If you don’t have a CEAB accredited degree from a bricks and mortar university in Canada, then you will have to write 18 exams in order to get your P.Eng.

    These exams are written either at PEO headquarters in Toronto, or at a supporting university such as McMaster in Hamilton. The University of Waterloo (incredibly) is not a PEO exam centre. Region of Waterloo residents, enjoy the drive to Hamilton! (Parking at McMaster is also ~$30, so bring plenty of coins.)

    PEO will only reveal the required exams in their P.Eng program one phase at a time, however I do have to complete exam list to show what they can pick from.

    Also note the material for these exams is learned entirely through distance/self-study. There are no courses or assignments. You pay a fee ~$200 and then write the exam. That’s it. Again, isn’t it ironic that PEO will not accept online/distance ed but their entire program to get licensed as a P.Eng is distance ed?

    Basic Studies (Phase 1):
    ——————————————————
    04-BS-1 Mathematics
    04-BS-2 Probability and Statistics
    04-BS-4 Electric Circuits and Power
    04-BS-5 Advanced Mathematics
    04-BS-6 Mechanics of Materials
    04-BS-7 Mechanics of Fluids
    04-BS-8 Digital Logic Circuits
    04-BS-10 Thermodynamics
    04-BS-11 Properties of Materials
    04-BS-12 Organic Chemistry
    04-BS-13 Biology
    04-BS-14 Geology
    04-BS-16 Discrete Mathematics

    Professional Level Exams Specific to Software Engineering (Phase 2)
    ————————————————————————————————
    GROUP A
    04-Soft-A1 Algorithms & Data Structures
    04-Soft-A2 Computing Structures
    04-Soft-A3 Software Design
    04-Soft-A4 Real Time Systems
    04-Soft-A5 Requirements and Specifications
    04-Soft-A6 Software Quality Assurance
    04-Soft-A7 Software Process

    GROUP B
    04-Soft-B1 Advanced Object Oriented Design
    04-Soft-B2 User interface
    04-Soft-B3 Security/Safety
    04-Soft-B4 Reliability and Fault Tolerance
    04-Soft-B5 Software Modeling & Verification (Formal Methods)
    04-Soft-B6 Advanced Software Project Management, Life Cycle Methodologies
    04-Soft-B7 Reverse Engineering, Maintenance & Evolution
    04-Soft-B8 Distributed Systems
    04-Soft-B9 Parallel Computing
    04-Soft-B10 Networking and Communications
    04-Soft-B11 Process Control Systems
    04-Soft-B12 Scientific Computation
    04-Soft-B13 Performance Analysis & Simulation
    04-Soft-B14 Safety Critical Systems
    04-Soft-B15 Artificial Intelligence/Intelligent Systems
    04-Soft-B16 Compilers
    04-Soft-B17 Programming Language Paradigm
    04-Soft-B18 Computer Graphics/Imaging/Visualization

    COMPLEMENTARY STUDIES (Phase 3)
    ————————————————————–
    98-CS-1 Engineering Economics
    98-CS-2 Engineering in Society – Health, Safety, and the Environment
    98-CS-3 Management Concepts for Engineers

    (Phase 4)
    ——————————————-
    Engineering Report

    (Phase 5)
    ——————————————-
    PPE – Professional Practice Exam

  18. I graduated in Bachelor of Engineering Manufacturing in CBU, I have learned a lot , and I compare this program to
    the another one is running in McMaster, and one of friend of mine is graduated recently from McMaster , he believes, he didn’t gain enough, the reality is that in the past the universities were the center of the sciences of all kind, and nobody had access to that science, because Internet was not available ,only full time student had chance to learn something, but today the science market is changed, now internet is the center of science, all universities relying their knowledge to the Internet, it means you have access know to the any knowledge you are looking for from your house !!
    Then the universities should change their structure , is anyone can tell me ,that what type of lab is available in university and is not available in industries or in google.
    All Lab the universities are using know are outdated or is not possible to be install in university , the best Lab ,located
    in your workplace ,or industries, to me CBU is one of the best university , the classes are running daily ,you can attend
    to the classes if you want too and improve your knowledge , if you are working in the same field then talk to instructor meet the requirement to do it online
    We must remember Steve Jobs was a Inventor (iPhone,and iPad), he was just a Technologist,he was not Graduate from Ryerson or UFT, or Harvard, he Just graduated from a community college, those years that most of the successful people were from Harvard ,or UFT,or Ryerson is over now, those graduated student working under the
    supervision of experienced people , that’s what I learned during in 30 years experience , every week I have
    client which they are P.Eng, and need to talk to me to solve their problem ,good for me and Good for CBU have
    knowledgeable student

    Alex

  19. Harshit Kamboj says:

    Hi,
    First of all I would like to thank the people who took their time to write in this thread which is helpful in guiding people like me.

    I read in this thread somewhere that someone mentioned about the University of North Dakota Civil Engineering Bachelors course which is accredited in Engineering Society (Washington Accord). I have already applied for it and hope to get enrolled soon. But my question is that after I am done with that course do I have to enrol in as an EIT or do I have to enrol into some other Province’s Professional Engineering Body as I live in Ontario and I don’t know if PEO will accept my degree from there.

    I also already have a 2 year diploma from Seneca College and I have been working as a Drafter/Detailer/Estimator for Structural Steel fabrication company for 2 years. Can someone please guide me that if I am eligible to apply for EIT or not. If not then when will I be able to apply as an EIT.

    I was unable to get a proper answer from the people from PEO so if someone could help me with anything that would be great.

    Regards

    • Chris Baehr says:

      Make sure the program you are going to take down there is ABET accredited or you’re wasting your money.

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